You're absolutely right, Designs... when under Duress, they all will turn. I was speaking in general terms; however, when they "have to" make mother happy, they'll eat their own.
Darth Rutherford
JoinedPosts by Darth Rutherford
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49
Did YOU Feel Abused By The Elders?
by minimus ini know some here have said they pretty much hated the elders.
did you personally feel the elders were abusive men?.
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49
Did YOU Feel Abused By The Elders?
by minimus ini know some here have said they pretty much hated the elders.
did you personally feel the elders were abusive men?.
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Darth Rutherford
In many ways it mimics the cycle of abuse. Someone who is abused may easily be abusive to others later on. There are abusive people whether they are elders or not. Remember, elders don't receive in special training. They simply mimic what their experiences have been in the organization. Publishers who were abused by elders tend to become abusive elders -repeating the cycle. Publishers who had good experiences with the elders tend to become more involved and caring with the congregation. The fact that loving, caring elders are rare speaks volumes.
We all probably have met abusive elders. I did... even when I was an elder. However, as an elder, I also dealt with abusive publishers who made my life harder than it needed to be.
In general, Jehovah's Witnesses are abused by the mother-organization who controls every aspect of their life. I blame the organization and the whole WT system that traps individuals into remaining in this abusive relationship. If Witnesses didn't feel so trapped, more would leave willingly. However, between the constant fear of displeasing God and dying at Armageddon and the fear of being shunned by the only social structure they have, these poor souls feel trapped.
That, in my opinion, is the epitome of abuse.
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The ten most embarrassing scriptures for Jehovah's Witnesses
by slimboyfat in1. mark 7:15 "there is nothing from outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man.. so how can eating black pudding or having a blood transfusion be a sin?.
2. roman 14:5 one [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as others; let each one be convinced in his own mind.
so how come they say birthdays and festivals are a sin?.
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Darth Rutherford
Here you go Simon:
“Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God, but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s [inspired expression] which YOU have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.” (1 John 4:2, 3)
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To those still "in"... how do these scriptures impact you?
by leaving_quietly inmatt 7:13, 14: "go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14?whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.".
matt 24:44: "on this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the son of man is coming.".
2 pet 3:3, 4: "for you know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4?and saying: where is this promised presence of his?
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Darth Rutherford
LeavingQuiety: Remember, Jesus made it clear that many of his disciples would be led away those posing as true Christians. If they didn't look legitimate, then his disciples wouldn't be deceived.
What you're feeling is normal at this stage. Be patient. You need to follow the Bible's command, " Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.” (1 John 4:1) You have been taught many things, but likely never truly questioned these "inspired" teachings to see how true they were. To "test" something requires that you start asking questions.
Also, reflect on 1 Thessalonians 5:21, " Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.” Literally, that phrase means "be you proving." You have to start questioning everything you were taught, and prove whether it is true or not. Some of it may be true, some of it may not be true, but you have to do the work and prove it to yourself. We all could tell you what those verses mean in the greater scheme of things... but it won't mean anything until you see it for yourself. Don't assume everything you were taught is right; otherwise, you've done nothing but put your trust in nobles... and we know what the Bible says about that, right?
Hang in there... again, what you're feeling is normal. Everyone who has left a high-control group or cult goes through this stage. Even people who leave an abusive, dangerous relationship will go through moments of doubt. I promise you that it will get easier as you start testing these teachings and proving it to yourself.
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The ten most embarrassing scriptures for Jehovah's Witnesses
by slimboyfat in1. mark 7:15 "there is nothing from outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man.. so how can eating black pudding or having a blood transfusion be a sin?.
2. roman 14:5 one [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as others; let each one be convinced in his own mind.
so how come they say birthdays and festivals are a sin?.
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Darth Rutherford
Great list! You may also want to consider Luke 21:8, "He said: 'Look out that you are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, 'I am he,' and, 'The due time has approached.' Do not go after them.'"
I have yet to meet a Witness who can exclude the WT from that verse.
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May Watchtower makes the same mistake Moses did
by leaving_quietly inprobably not the first time this has happened, but the w13 5/15 at least twice made the same mistake that got moses killed by god.. p.8 par.
2: "with heartfelt zeal, we invite "anyone that wishes [to] take life's water free.
" (rev 22:17).
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Darth Rutherford
Great catch! I will definitely use that. I echo Data-Dog's comment... workinig together we can spot these valuable nuggets that may help rescue someone still trapped in the organization.
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I love this guy and one day he will be really famous.
by Amelia Ashton injames rhodes sodomised by his pe teacher, ex druggie and locked up against his will in an asylum but look at him now!.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9degxr1iwe.
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Darth Rutherford
Love it! Thanks!
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Topics Witnesses Should Seriously Think About
by Darth Rutherford inthe bible teaches that jesus is the one mediator between god and all mankind [anthropon], but the organization teaches us that jesus christ, is not the mediator between jehovah god and all mankind.
(the watchtower, 9/15/1993, p.22) the bible teaches that salvation is through jesus not an earthly organization under heaven.
the organization matches jesus description.
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Darth Rutherford
Designs, certainly your comments are welcomed and appreciated. I'm afraid you may be missing our point. I am not opening a thread to debate whether Christ is our mediator. The Bible at 1 Timothy 2:5,6 makes it clear that there is one mediator and it is Jesus. This basic understanding is not limited to the New World Translation, but it is one of the basic tenants of the New Testament and Christian belief.
I am simply trying to share some thoughts that helped me awaken from the slumber that all Witnesses still share. We all are on a journey for truth, and that journey will provoke many questions -such as the ones you're asking. I am not trying to provide answers to those questions, but rather look for ways to help stir one's thinking abilities. We need to look for ways to trigger cognitive dissonance in a people who will only look at their Bible and the organization's publications for answers. However, I believe that is enough to help someone. If we are armed with scriptures and references, along with some good questions and discussion points, we can help our loved ones begin asking questions and seeking answers for themselves. The organization is so weak that just a few scriptures in the right place can cause the whole thing to crumble. Let's work on helping our friends in the organization to think for themselves. Trust me, once they begin to think, there will be time to discuss deeper things later. Until then, let's not put the cart before the horse.
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Topics Witnesses Should Seriously Think About
by Darth Rutherford inthe bible teaches that jesus is the one mediator between god and all mankind [anthropon], but the organization teaches us that jesus christ, is not the mediator between jehovah god and all mankind.
(the watchtower, 9/15/1993, p.22) the bible teaches that salvation is through jesus not an earthly organization under heaven.
the organization matches jesus description.
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Darth Rutherford
Who's Your Mediator?
First, does Jesus Christ mediate between you and Jehovah God? The Bible teaches, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times.”(1 Timothy 2:5, 6) The Greek word for “men” in the sentence, “one mediator between God and men” is anthropon. This Greek word is a generic term for all mankind. Jesus used this same word at Luke 19:30: “Go into the village that is within sight of you, and in it after you pass in you will find a colt tied, on which none of mankind [anthropon] ever sat.” The Bible teaches that Jesus is the one mediator between God and all mankind [anthropon], but the organization teaches us that “Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members.” (Worldwide Security Under the “Prince of Peace”, chap. 1 pp. 10-11 par. 16) Why would Jesus lovingly ransom all mankind, but not act as a mediator for all those he ransomed?
What Is Your Means to Salvation?
Secondly, the Bible teaches, “Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” (Acts 4:12) As the Bible says, there is no salvation “under heaven” on earth, and no name that can be given among men that leads to our salvation. Clearly, NOTHING on earth: neither government, nor political leaders, nor political party, nor business, nor commercial venture, nor religion, nor church, nor organization can bring salvation. Why, then, do we feel that we must be named, or labeled as “Jehovah's Witnesses” in order to have salvation? Why do we believe that destruction awaits us if we are not closely associated with the organization? Because we are taught “if we were to draw away from Jehovah’s organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy.” (The Watchtower, 9/15/1993, p.22) The Bible teaches that salvation is through Jesus –not an earthly organization under heaven. To blindly follow the teachings of the Governing Body for salvation is ignoring the Bible’s direct command, “Do not put your trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs.” (Psalm 146:3) Jehovah isn’t using an earthly organization on earth today -he is using something superior: Jesus Christ. If he was using an earthly organization under heaven, and if we must be identified with the name of that organization in order to receive salvation, does that not contradict the meaning of Acts 4:12?
What Would Moses Say?
Next, how would Moses view the organization today? When the Israelites asked Moses how to identify false prophets, Moses replied, “when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.” (Deuteronomy 18:20-22) The organization insists we are not “inspired prophets”, but the Watchtower stated “[Jehovah] had a ‘prophet’ to warn them. This ‘prophet’ was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses.” (The Watchtower, 4/1/1972 p.197, 200) The Governing Body also claims to be God’s "channel". (The Watchtower, 1/15/2001 p.16) In the Bible, a prophet is either inspired and true, or uninspired and false. There are no "uninspired true prophets". Our history has shown that certain events did NOT happen in the years the organization prophesied would happen. For example, the years 1799, 1874, 1878, 1914, 1925 are all significant years where things prophesied did not come true. There is a history to the organization that we as Jehovah’s Witnesses should investigate. According to his own words, how would Moses feel about the organization when it claims to be Jehovah’s channel, His prophet, but has false predicted so many events? Did he make exceptions for the Israelites who did so?
Who Are You Following?
Finally, will you follow someone that Jesus directly says to avoid? Jesus said, “Look out that you are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time has approached.’ Do not go after them’”. (Luke 21:8) He warned that many would come by means of his name, meaning that they would claim to be fellow Christians working with Jesus, recognizing him as Lord. They would also claim “I am he” or (“I am the Christ”). This means they would be claiming to have been “anointed” or chosen by God to lead His people to salvation. Lastly, they would be proclaiming that the prophetic “due” time has approached, was at hand, that the end was near. As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we believe we have been specially chosen by Jehovah God, and the organization’s anointed Governing Body was chosen to lead us through Armageddon because the end is near. The organization matches Jesus’ description. Jesus warned his followers to avoid following anyone who fits his description. Why would Jehovah raise up a “true religion” that matches the very people Jesus said to avoid?
Seriously Think About This!
The Bible commands us to “test the inspired expressions”. (1 John 4:1) However, the Watchtower tells us not to ask questions. "…They do not question what [God] tells them through his written Word and organization." (The Watchtower, 7/15/1974 p. 441 par. 13) If we follow the Bible and “test” our beliefs, the elders will investigate us for causing divisions or apostasy! Why will God’s organization disfellowship us for obeying His command to test everything we are taught?
My brothers and sisters, I am a 3rd generation Witness. I served as an elder for many years. I am not disfellowshipped or disassociated. Trust me, these four topics are just the tip of the iceberg. We have the responsibility to investigate our teachings and the history of the organization. You can no longer just blindly put your trust in the organization’s theocratic nobles. We must ask questions so we are not misled. We have blindly allowed the Governing Body to convince us that Jesus is not our mediator, yet we're expected to closely follow the organization as our means for salvation. Look! Witnesses now follow the organization as their mediator for salvation! They follow an organization that matches the very description of those Jesus said would mislead us. Though our intentions are good, we have no one to blame but ourselves because we blindly put our trust in nobles of men for salvation, and failed to “test the inspired expressions” that they teach us.
Didn't Jesus die in order to replace the need for an earthly institution to bring us closer to God? Jesus is the way. He is “the truth”… not the organization, or any other man-made organization. Prove you are not following a false prophet that is misleading millions. Start asking questions. Start investigating. Start finding answers.
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New Member...
by sosoconfused inhello everyone, just wanted to say hi and introduce myself.. i am a mid 30's just stepped aside elder, who just couldn't handle it anymore.. i am a 3rd generation born-in and former pioneer and bethelite.
it has been a log somewhat confusing ride for me, but i am finally settling in to realizing that i need to really look at what me and my family are doing.. .
its funny though what really got me here... it wasn't the 40 year old men telling me they were looking at boobies on the computer and hoping not to get in trouble, it wasn't the watching young people bail left and right, it wasn't the ever changing new light etc... but a simple thought.. .
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Darth Rutherford
Welcome Sosoconfused! I was an elder as well (book study overseer, School overseer, WT conductor, blah, blah, blah). Like many others, I'm a 3rd gener. Your OP is so similar to a conversation I had with one of my closest friends a few years ago. I remember when Michael Jackson died, I was like: so, he's going to make it into the New System via resurrection, and I might die if I don't put enough hours in FS or watch all my P's and Q's? WTH?! My friend said it would be far kinder for us to go door-to-door and just shoot each householder, then they'd certainly make it into paradise. He wasn't serious, but he was illustrating just how poor the logic is that the organization has fostered. It's actually a little scary when you consider what some in the congregation might do if they finally just snapped.
Anyway, it's funny how a little logic will topple the whole WT house of cards! You have a marvelous brain, and you're going to enjoy using it without the WT filter... so many things you're about to discover!
You're among friends... and many of us were elders who can relate to the things you saw behind the curtain.